By uninformed, I count myself as number one. I’m writing this because I didn’t really get the whole Apple deprecating Java situation. It sounded serious, so I educated myself a bit. This post might be helpful for people who don’t understand what the big deal is. Turns out it’s really pretty simple.
So last week, Apple came out with this little announcement, which states the following:
As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the Java runtime ported by Apple and that ships with Mac OS X is deprecated. Developers should not rely on the Apple-supplied Java runtime being present in future versions of Mac OS X.
I’ve heard a number of people, even on respected tech podcasts, say things along the lines of, “It’s not really a big deal. It just means that Java won’t come pre-installed on your Mac. You’ll have to install it yourself. It’s like what they are doing with the Flash player. New Macs won’t ship with it, but there’s nothing stopping you from installing it yourself.”
This is very far from the truth. The question is, if Apple is not making Java for the Mac, what exactly are you going to install yourself? Let’s pop over to java.com and see what they have. http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp
Well, let’s see, we have installs for Windows, Solaris, and Linux…
And… oh there it is, OS X:
Oops. They tell you to go to Apple to get Java. Oracle currently maintains the other versions of Java listed above. They do not currently make a version of Java for OS X. Nor does anybody else. Apple’s stance seems to be “Oracle makes it for everyone else, they can make it for OS X now too. We’re done.” Thus far, Oracle has been silent. JDK 7 is targeted for mid-2011. Presumably it is well underway. Tossing an entire other platform into the schedule mid-stream is not a small undertaking. If Oracle steps up (one would assume they’re going to have to), I can’t imagine you’ll see JDK 7 released in the same time frame for Mac as for the other platforms. That would actually pretty much be business as usual for OS X. Apple has lagged behind in the release of their versions. I remember there were some things in Red5 that depended on JDK 6. Apple’s version lagged many months behind the official version, making it very difficult for some of my coworkers.
The other possibility is that OpenJDK will take it on. No word on that yet either.
Yes, others can jump in and fill the void over time, but i totally agree with you, those saying this isn´t a big deal are way off.
This is of course a very big deal for java´s penetration on macs and it also should make one reconsider whether one develops for some runtime for which its not secured how it will be spread in the short- midterm.
Apple has shown its cards pretty boldly during the last and this year. They are basically about a unified approach and against things like plugins/ virtual mahine runtimes like flash player which are working against that. Hence its logical from their stance to reduce platform holder side support for those over time.
I find it interesting that no one is actually pushing Oracle for a response. Its speculation gone rampant.
Apple has maintained Java port for OSX for a long time, and there really isn’t much benefit for them. How many consumer Java apps are there? Not many. How many Java devs use OSX to develop one? probably quite a few, but since there aren’t many Java apps on OSX (and Apple probably doesn’t want Java client apps), who’s benefiting here? Probably not too many. Lots of work for Apple, and very little ROI.
Now on the flip side, two big client apps that use Java are Eclipse and OpenOffice. “If” there is no Oracle port coming 2011, then that throws a big wrench into my daily life since nearly all the new tools that Adobe is producing are built on top of Eclipse. I know I won’t be upgrading to 10.7 until I know I can run the tools I need. The big hurt goes on Adobe since they are obviously using Eclipse to make cross-platform app development easier: Flash Builder, Flash Catalyst, CFBuilder, and now ‘Edge’ (if it becomes a real product). I don’t think the Apple-Flash issues factored into their decision to deprecate Java, but it definitely is another kick in the nuts to Adobe on Apple hardware… “IF” Oracle doesn’t provide Java. Personally, I think Oracle provides Java for OSX, but that’s speculation until Oracle actually says something.
John, I agree that probably not too many people develop Java apps FOR the Mac, but many people do Java development ON a Mac. Or use Eclipse to code other stuff ON a Mac. Also, this affects Processing, which is Java based. There’s also various server technologies such as Red5, Apache, etc. and build tools like Ant that rely on Java. All in all, it’s the developers who are going to be hurt if this doesn’t resolve smoothly and quickly. For consumers, it’s largely a non-issue.
Just an interesting question and worse case scenario speculation, but if Oracle doesn’t step up and considering Adobe’s investment in Eclipse, do you think Adobe should get behind OpenJDK and help with porting Java to OSX 10.7? or is their investment too minor (overall to the rest of their products) and the relationship too damaged to care? I would have to imagine this conversation is going on within Adobe after Apples decision.
Wow I heard of this but it did not seem to be a big deal even though wording was scary.
Now you opened my eyes. So Apple made a bold move yet again. Baning Flash from iOS before a release of packager. Now damaging Java penetration on OS X… That’s very weird. I wonder if there is an installer of old version somewhere so that people could use at least something until Oracle starts making OS X version.
I wonder why they did not struck some deal with Oracle beforehand by trying to give them their current version or something for further support and development. Seems like another arrogant self-serving move from Apple.
Apple’s decision to discontinue Java development on OSX is huge, I’d say bigger than no Flash on iPhone.
Why?
Many, many programs, services and languages require the JVM. Even if the program was not built using the Java language (e.g C++ or Objective-C).
Clojure, Scala and possible Ruby use the JVM.
Oh and no JVM on OSX means no Flash Authoring as well:
http://www.alanklement.com/img/java_flash.png
I also found these posts quite informative:
http://www.subfurther.com/blog/?p=1305
http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/10/22/java/
The part that makes me as an Eclipse user slightly optimistic is this one:
“… If they’re using Eclipse, I think they’ll be OK. It shouldn’t take long to shim SWT on top of an OpenJDK port, and IBM has shown a lot of initiative over the years. Other “pure Java” IDEs, like JetBrains’ (superior, in my opinion) IDEA, depend on a working AWT, and therefore have some more thinking to do.”
Adding Adobe to the mix, I hope Eclipse on the Mac will survive…
I have no doubt that Java will live on on Mac, only fear that there could be some rocky times ahead as it all gets sorted out.
hmmm, I don’t know why you like all negative things around Apple!
Actually this post is not negative towards Apple at all, merely stating some facts that could have some serious impact on people using Macs. I actually totally agree with the idea of Apple ending being responsible for Java. It doesn’t benefit them in their current strategy, and it is probably better if Oracle takes it over in the long run. I do feel that the way they are just kind of dumping it is a bit irresponsible, but I’m not sure what else they could do.
Theres a project out there to remedy this lack of Java on the mac, its called Soy Latte
http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/static/soylatte/
I have not used it yet, but if OSX continues to be loosely based on BSD there will always be a port of some sort..
I’d think users that truly need Java will stick with Mac OS X 10.6, and not go to 10.7 until someone (presumably, the ones with the most financial incentive – Oracle) ports Java themselves to Mac OS X. When is the next version of OS X supposed to be out anyway?
I guess the lead time is short in corporate terms, but it doesn’t seem like there’s anything to panic about at this point. In the longer term, this is great, because it means OS X will finally get up to date Java runtimes (assuming someone has an interest in releasing up to date version in a timely manor), rather than constantly waiting for Apple to update a runtime they don’t own anyway.