A series of comments on an earlier post tempted me to get drawn into an HTML5 vs Flash and a iPhone/iPad vs anything else and a Windows vs PC battle. And I must admit, I did get drawn in to posting some comments on another blog on a rather sensationalist Android vs iPhone post.
But the truth is, I’m trying very hard to stay out of all these battles. I really don’t care what you do, what platform you use, what kind of phone you use, what language you develop in, or what kind of devices you develop for. One resolution I’ve made recently is to try to avoid the word “should”, as in “you should buy this device” or “you should try that platform”. Do what you want. I assume you’re doing it because you enjoy it. If not, well, that seems kind of stupid, but then again, you must have some other reasons for doing something you don’t enjoy. But the point is, you are doing what you are doing for a reason, and I have no interest in changing your mind.
Of course, this being my blog, I will post about the things that I am interested in and the things that I am exploring. For a while I was very interested in iPhone development, and posting about this got me branded as a “traitor” by some members of the Flash community. Silly. Part of why I think this site has any popularity at all is because I explore and experiment with stuff. Now you’re saying that I can only do that within the confines of the Flash platform? Sorry.
I’ll also post my personal feelings about things here. For example, I said that I did not appreciate Apple’s attitude toward developers and their insistence on overprotecting their users. This is my opinion and was offered as a partial explanation on why I switched back to Windows. I’m not saying Apple is evil, or wrong, or that you should leave too. I’m merely saying that I personally don’t like it. I also don’t like liver and most country music. It’s not an ideology, it’s just personal taste.
So here are my stances on some of the big controversial items that people have been buzzing about lately.
HTML5: If it did what I need it to do, and worked on all browsers, I’d be all over it. It probably will some day. So I’ll keep an eye on it, but in my mind it’s more properly a spec than a real technology at this point.
iPhone: Great hardware. I enjoyed learning Objective-C. It was a real thrill to develop for multi-touch, accelerometer, etc. Really opened up some new ideas. No doubt the iPhone was a game changer. However, the app store business model is so seriously flawed in my opinion though that I don’t have any specific plans to continue iPhone development.
iPad: I pre-ordered one. It’s an absolutely gorgeous device but I honestly rarely use it. If I’m on the go, I use my phone for stuff, which is way more portable. If I’m at home, I use my PC, which is way more functional. I want to love it, but I haven’t found what niche in my life it fills. I’m also disappointed that it is basically a large iPhone, with the same development and content restrictions. It has so much potential – if it had a real OS and I could install what I wanted on it, it would be even more amazing. The extent that it is locked down really kills it for me.
Windows vs. Mac: There is really not so much difference these days. Whatever. I was on Windows for years. I was on a Mac for over 3 years. Once you get past the superficial difference like keyboard shortcuts, etc., you could easily forget which platform you are working on. Apple hardware is a little more shiny and sexy, sure, but my computer is a work tool, not a fashion accessory. OS X is probably a bit more stable than Windows, sure. But not drastically so. It’s easy to achieve stability when you have one version of the OS that runs on a single piece of hardware, which you also make. At any rate, I have a long list of friends who have had nightmares with Apple hardware and software, so it’s not perfect by any stretch.
Flash: I like Flash. I have an affinity for it. I use it and will continue to use it. I have made my living with Flash for the last several years and am continuing to do so. I understand that you may hate it. I understand that you may think it’s an old dead technology. You don’t have to foam yourself at the mouth in my comment section to get that point across, OK? Thanks. I’m going to continue to use it until something else comes along that does all that it does better than it does. I’ll also continue to actively try new technologies, even if it gets me labeled a traitor, so don’t accuse me of being a Flash fanboy who is afraid to step into the future.
Android: I got a Nexus One a couple of months ago. It took me a few weeks to use it on a regular basis. But now I am totally hooked. I’m resisting the urge to say that you “should” try Android for a solid month. But if you did, you would have a hard time going back to an iPhone, I think. I know that I couldn’t go back now. Android gives you so much more freedom to do what you want with your phone. Only after using it for a few weeks do you realize just HOW locked down the iPhone really is. It’s not perfect. Not by a long shot. But I find it easy to overlook its flaws with those flaws are probably just that – flaws that will eventually be corrected – and not purposely created restrictions.
Feel free to comment on these items, but try not to be a jerk. I’m not going to argue with you. There’s really nothing to argue about. These are my opinions and my likes and dislikes. You may have similar or different opinions, likes and dislikes. I respect that.
I can’t agree more with you. I’m constantly surprised how emotion people are getting about debates like HTML5 vs Flash and how the people that are the most vocal aren’t even the ones that do anything with the technology, they just don’t like how videos run on their laptop.
My motto is pick the best tool for the job and if it’s Flash then great, if it’s something else use that. Limiting yourself to one language or platform is stupid, bad for yourself and for your clients.
Respect!
This battle is like Highlander – Finally only one will remain (one conception). It’s interesting to observe the different concepts of companies, not just separate products. Flash is great, but policy of Adobe is not, such like iPhone and Apple store policy. I think Adobe wants to engage only with graphics and really huge concepts like Acrobat remain undeveloped. Now is very important for large companies (different concepts) to create great product that can power everything in company. Objective-C not propels iPhone, iPhone propels Objective-C . Adobe have not great product, Windows too.
In my humble opinion, it’s not about the tool, it’s about how you use it and what you do with it.
However flash and html5 are comparable just about video and a couple of other things for now. Flash still rocks.
Yo
Actually it’s great you post on new things and other non-flash technologies. Thank you, keep it up! 🙂
You got that right, Keith!
Who are they to label you for exploring a new platform? If anything, you did what every self-respecting developer would do: Check out the possibilities…
If that is what get you called ‘traitor’ they should reconsider, because exploration is the only way to innovation/creativity.
I’ve played with Android for a bit, but it just doesn’t do the trick for me. Yet. The overall iphone experience just feels a bit more polished. Maybe next year.
Having said that: Thx for sharing all of your cool stuff! Have fun!
(All night loooong!)
How am I supposed to flame you when you are being so reasonable??? FUUUUUU….
keep on keeping on!
Ronny, I didn’t think about who you were til that last line, then it all came back to me. 🙂
(hush hush!)
Well said!
-Koof
>> I will post about the things that I am interested in and the things that I am exploring
This is why I read your blog, and your bloody interesting and insightful … respect for not getting drawn in to the flaming crap
Well said.
Good post Keith. I got involved way too much into the discussions on Flash, Html5, Adobe, Apple etc, too over the past few months.
I used flash for many years, also doing stuff in html, js, unity, for web, iPhone etc so yeah, its all too easy to get into all these discussions when one feels involved in the topic so much.
Meanwhile i have the same view as you though, its not worth getting into such discussions, everyone can post his view, read the one of others and try any technology, it doesn´t bring a lot to try to convince anyone of something else though, who wants to can try the different options and that´s that =)
This is exactly why I read your blog. And if you do write about a technology that doesn’t interest me, then I will just skip it in my RSS reader… that hasn’t happened yet 😀
cheers,
Danno
Very well listed points on which I have to agree as far as I have the same experience. One thing that is a bit of a letdown with people who want to have a look on the Android phones is that there seems to be no way to see the app market unless you own the phone. The Android market place on the web is a joke! So unless you own the phone you don’t know how well the software support is now for Android phones. Please correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t know of any way to have a detailed look on the Android market place unless I own the phone.
Top post KP, took me a while to realise who had written it (assuming the site’s had a bit of a makeover recently!?)
I’ve been enthralled by the number of “Vs” debates that are in full swing at the moment. As long as people resort to facts (which is why I got a bit up in arms about Apple’s initial jibes directed at Flash) then there’s nothing like a good healthy debate of the issues.
Great post, completely agree with it. There isn’t just one language/platform/vendor which is suitable for all things you want to build. Choose the technology which is suitable for the job.
I agree on all counts, and after developing for the iPhone for the past few years, I have to say I actually gained a bit more respect for Apple. Perhaps not in the way they treat developers, but in the way they were able to get consumers up to speed on mobile technology. It’s also hard to ignore the doors that were opened for small and independent developers.
That being said, I’ve got my Android phone on order, and can’t wait to begin working on that platform as well. After all of this back and forth over platforms and languages, it’s been very clear to me that the important thing to focus on are good programming habits, intuitive design, and a platform-agnostic attitude.
I find it sad you even have to explain your blog and yourself. We choose out own paths and learn at our own pace. I’ve followed you for years because you are a technologist. Thanks for doing what you do. Keep up the great work Keith. Cheers!
I’ve been following you for years and have always appreciated your point of view. I agree that the major points of debate really aren’t worth it. I’ve always been interested in newer technology and using the right tool for the job. If something better comes out and proves itself, use it. However, if a developer allows themselves to get pegged down to a technology, eventually they’ll only be fit for management 🙂
Bravo. I appreciate the reason in this article. I also got hooked on Android, and so did my wife after years of iPhone use. We jailbroke our iPho es in December of 2009 and it sort of opened our eyes to what smartphones could be like if they were as open as our computers are. A general dissatifaction with needing to jailbreak and seeing Android as an open alternative pushed me to try a Nexus One ATT version so that I could go back to iPhone. They use same SIM card. It was all downhill for iphone from there. It feels good to call phones “phones” again. Appending “i” to our phones sounds really stupid now. Anyway, I hope Apple comes around and loosens up but I dont think they will.
Keith, you pretty much summed up exactly how i feel about the whole thing. People get way too tied up in the technology and feel like the must attack or defend or what have you. Basically, it’s all just tools and toys and people need to realize that.
But having said all that, I also really like the Nexus One, i’ve been using one since they came out. I had never used any smartphones before then so i can’t really compare it to an iphone but it’s an enjoyable phone.
Exactly. To each his own and use what best solves your problems. And may Freedom prevail.
Well said.
just to the point.
Can not hold myself, more respect for you than before.
Keith; I’ve been downright depressed about the level of discussion between the Flash community and the standards community (I happen to have dual citizenship) as of late.
This is by far the best response I’ve seen so far. I completely agree with your sentiments here, and I wish more people could come to see that HTML doesn’t have to kill Flash and Apple doesn’t need to kill Android. These are just technologies! Pick whichever you like and have fun with it.
Keith! Well said! I know if I had attempted to vocalise my opinions on the matter it would never have been as measured, eloquent and just so damn mature! Good job.
bravo….., just what every one should say, like i use to say , we just have to use the right tecnology for every project, and try to get the best of everyone to achieve a better result. keep on going like that your the “Master”
Amen
At first I did not want to read another html5, apple vs flash, adobe blog post. Howevever I read it word by word, including comments! I could not agree more! Well written Keith! Freedom and technology are the winners at the end!
Very good points, all around. These various technologies, platforms, and toolsets should complement one another – they are generally not exclusionary!
BTW: Whoever branded you as a “traitor” obviously has a major problem viewing the big picture.
amen. have spent my whole career marvelling at the utter pointlessness of geek flame wars.
breaks down to: i like coffee, you don’t, we’d be idiots to argue about it.
Apple allows Flash developers to purchase & use the iPhone?!?
Great post. Great blog. Your work, contributions and leadership are much appreciated 🙂
Fantastic post, these things need saying. I’ll use whatver OS/phone/web technology does the job best – if someone else does things in a different way so be it. Take notice of them if they’ve done a better job than you have, otherwise don’t stress about it.
Steve Jobs yesterday at D8 said flash is dying. I think he knows a thing or two about technology. All the major media magazine left flash for HTML5, as well as major web sites. http://www.apple.com/ipad/ready-for-ipad/
Then who wants to be left out of the iPhone/iPod touch/ iPad market ? loosing millions of users to keep an attitude ? And HTML5 works on all platform and cell phones including Microsoft http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/may/31/microsoft-ie9-html5-standards – versus flash that doesn’t work on iphones/ipads. The same is with apple hardware, windows runs on apple but OS X doesn’t work on win hardware. So with apple hardware you can have two operating systems. Guys do not be childish, just behave and accept the facts. Get off flash asap.
Adam, in all seriousness, did you even read what I wrote? I’ve responded to all your comments in the other post, but you’re really starting to seem more of a troll than anything else.
Yawn, I liked your post on these subjects but I lost interest in the arguments a while ago. It was taking away from my dev time and that translates to less spending money. I was writing software before flash, iphone, and html. I read the flame blog post in the same way I used to watch Jerry Springer and listen to Rush Limbaugh. It is guilty entertainment.
Adam I expect flash will be still dieing in 5 to 10 years…as it was 5 to 10 years ago when many of us started. And Html5 will be a non standardized standard like Html has always been, time will tell but history suggests. But I think the point was enjoy exploring the tech… its much more interesting to read about what you can do rather than what you don’t want to do, its what you do that will enable a tech to florish… so I hope to see some cool html5 from you Adam rather than a reply? Glad to see Keith has a Nexus, can’t wait to see his experiments as it’s a tech that interests me.
I so wanted to be the lone dissenter and just randomly say something negative just for a laugh. Then adam took the wind out of my sails.
Well written. I adopted the same attitude a while ago and it’s nice to see someone articulate it. Thanks, Keith. See you in a week and the first beverage is on me.
A lot of comments agreeing with you, and much of what you said seems right, but one thing I don’t agree with is making equipment buying decisions as a reaction to some policy or other. I’m happy with my iPhone, I have found a good use for my iPad, and although I hate that I’ve been blocked from using Flash and Revolution for iDevice development, I’m not going to rush out and buy an Android. I’ll continue to do Flash for Android (and get my colleagues to test the apps), and will use Unity and other tools for iPhone.
Colin, I can appreciate that. And again, I’m not telling you or even recommending that you switch anything. I switched from Mac to PC and from iPhone to Android and am very happy with both decisions. Also, I wouldn’t say that my decision was based on a reaction to some policy or other. It was based on a long trend of such policies, creating an environment that I wasn’t comfortable with.
Steve Jobs is somewhat consistent by the way, and he doesn’t just kill other companies products. He’s well known for having killed Newton, OpenDoc, and HyperCard. The overall pattern is that he seems to like quite easy to use technologies for everyone, and he likes quite tough technologies for engineers, but he’s not too keen on providing tools that open up programming to your average computer user. Tools like Flash and Revolution would really go against that philosophy!
The google pacman game was a perfect example of the fact that HTML5 and Flash can, in fact, get along. It was an extremely slick implementation of JS for a game, but when it came time to add sound fx, they went with flash. No drama, no fundamentalist adherence to one technology or the other, just using what works for ya, and mixing and matching if that’s what’s called for.
It not about what someone likes to do. It is about market share. The ones that will keep develping in flash, will be the huge market of iphone/ipads/ipods. That’s a HUGE market in mobil computing today. If I want I can still do web sites in perl today, it is slow, but they would still work. In flash you are out of the loop. I can still use the 3.5 floppy if I want, they make them with USB.
listen to what they have to say please: http://www.apple.com/iphone/apps-for-iphone/developer-stories.html#overlay-developerstories-behindtheapps
adam, you just don’t get it, eh?
“you must have some other reasons for doing something you don’t enjoy.”
I would enjoy being homeless and starving even less!
Adam, I am a Flash developer who does not care about Apple’s iHardware and I make good money with it and this will continue for the near future and that’s just reality. Steve Jobs’ Flash-bashing does not affect me…
I definitely agree with you…
It is the old game of control, reds versus blues… divide et impera.
Diversity is richness.
love
Filippo
Adam… what’s the point? You’re not changing anyone’s mind, you’re just making a fool of yourself. Just because the internet introduces anonymity doesn’t mean you have to take advantage of that just to be a dick.
I hate to just be repeating what everyone else said, but I agree with a lot of what you said, Keith (including your opinions on liver and country music 😀 ).
Also, I don’t think Flash is dead, because when looking to start creating an online game, I asked around and everyone seemed to point to flash as being the best way to do it. While some suggested things like Hamachi, or turning my computer into a micro-server, others pointed out that was *overkill*. Others pointed the way to javascript, but the graphics aren’t quite up to snuff. Flash is just easier for some things. I’m going to integrate some jQuery into the project, but the majority of it will still be done in flash.
I think the technology that will get you the best results for the least amount of work and greatest amount of compatibility is the best way to go.
Thanks for the great post Keith, I agree with your concepts on this subject. I also have explored the iphone, and actually continue to work with it.
I now have a mac in addition to my windows machine. Sometimes I do forget which one I am on, that line is really quite blurry now in my opinion – as you suggested.
I tinker with lots of technology, and I’m not going to give that up just to avoid being seen as a “traitor”.
I will most likely be getting an iPad, cause I do have some concepts that I think fit the device.
I’d hate to scare you, but given Adam’s posts I wouldn’t totally rule out him making a trip to japan to open your eyes to flash’s demise.
I was really gung-ho about Android for many reasons (one of them being that I think it’s very important that Apple has a good competitor). But, it’s just so not-quite-there-yet, as many Google things are. For a website, that doesn’t bother me. but for a phone? A little more important. Every time I use an Android phone, I feel like, “really? is this a beta?”
Your sentiments mirror my own, concerning the restrictions placed on the ipad and the lack of restrictions in Android.
I too have a nexus one and recently purchased an ipad, but can’t help but feel disappointed with it. As you said, if this thing had an unrestrictive OS installed on it, things would be different. For me, it genuinly would be a “magical, revolutionary” device, if I wasn’t locked down to the app store model and restrictive lockdowns.
Anyway, great blog post.
I’m torn on the Android.
I too have an android device (myself a HTC desire).
It’s a very good OS, with lots of potential (potential being the biggest word). The main thing that makes it not work is the standard apps that come pre-installed are not as good as some of the ones in the marketplace.
But the potential is huge, you can overwrite the features of the standard applications which means you can have a new SMS application that will be able to prompt you after locking the device (HandcentSMS). And the ability to install browsers.
The main flaws is the updates by the middlemen (in the UK the company Vodaphone is still on version 1.6 and lacks all the great updates from 2.0 onwards).
And the navigation isn’t as simple as one would hope, because of this a lot of my non-nerdy friends I wouldn’t ever recommend the android to. It’s too complicated and lacks the simplicity that the iPhone has at the moment. I literally had to teach one of my friends with his android how to customise it and use it properly to get some basic features that he wanted from the device.
Anyways, my 2 cents.
Oh but the iPhone IS perfect … for me. And that I believe is the nature of your post. It’s all horses for courses, and I, like you, really couldn’t care less what some other designer had for breakfast, what car they drive or how much RAM they have in whatever they have it in. I used to have a Blackberry, which I loved, and now I live on my iPhone. Who cares?
Now, let’s get on with life, which is what these thingies are meant to better.
Ack. Keep up the good work.
You SHOULD eat more liver!
Well said Sir.
A couple of questions though…
Where do you find the time ? Don’t you sleep?