Looks like this is the hot topic of the day. Well, it’s better than arguing over what “RIA” stands for. 🙂 Actually, Tink and I just had a long conversation about this the other day, and are on the same page.
Personally, I think that speakers should minimally be reimbursed for their travel and hotel arrangements. If a conference is in the business of making money, there is no way that they should even think of asking speakers to cover their own expenses. As I said on Peter Elst’s blog, it’s like holding a concert, booking musicians, asking them to play for free and cover their own expenses. The speakers are the content of the conference. This is the reason people are paying money for their tickets. So even if you are a not-for-profit event, you should at least consider speaker expenses part of the conference expenses, as much so as the audio and video crew, paying for the space, etc.
I think that most speakers would agree to speak for free, as long as their expenses are paid. In fact, FiTC works this way, and I’ve never heard a complaint. I actually asked John Davey to not pay me for speaking at Flash on the Beach, but he wouldn’t hear of it. I think it’s pretty amazing that speakers will speak for free, and even more so that many even pay their way to the conference, as well as their hotels.
The 360Flex survey I think is a little skewed. You are basically asking attendees, “do you want to pay the same price and get what you usually get, or do you want to pay the same price and get less than what you usually get, or do you want to pay more, and get what you usually get?” Asking attendees whether or not they think speakers should be paid seems kind of odd. Asking them to give up free food so that speakers can be paid, hmmm.
This gets into the whole “food at conference” question, that Tink and I talked a lot about. How about this for a survey question: “Would you rather pay the usual price and get free food, or pay $500 less and buy your own food?” Personally, I go to a conference to see the speakers and hang out with people. I don’t go for the food and don’t expect to be fed. This post was pretty enlightening:
http://www.360conferences.com/360flex/2007/09/360flex-recap-money-transparency.html
I did some math.
Attendee registrations: $ 83,000.
At $360 a head, this seems to indicate that there were about 230 attendees.
Food: $94,000
94k divided by 230 is $408 per head for food! And they paid $360 to get in.
Even if there were 360 attendees, that’s still $261 per person for food. Basically, you are running an expensive restaurant with some Flex speakers as entertainment.
Now, I’ve never been to a 360Flex, and I don’t mean to pick on them, and everyone says they are great events. I’m just talking logistics. I’d like to see some of the $94k go towards reimbursing speakers. But now that’s a hard sell, because to do that, you’re going to have to take the free food out of the mouths of the attendees, and give them nothing to replace it other than the warm feeling they get knowing that their beloved speakers got a free plane ride and hotel.
At one conference a while back, I forget which, but a few of us jokingly were talking about creating a “conference speakers’ bill of rights”. I still consider that a joke, and don’t mean to suggest that someone go ahead and do that, but I think things would change if more speakers asked for expenses. If conferences know that they can get speakers for free, that will just never enter the budget. If they consider it an expense, it will get covered. The fact that conferences like FiTC and Flash on the Beach manage to be fantastic conferences, at an affordable price range, pay speaker expenses, and still make a profit, means that anyone can do it.
Another example is MAX which only paid for “inspire speakers” air fare and hotel. “Regular” speakers just got hotel. Prior to this year, speakers got nothing. But then they go and spend a half a million dollars on a party. If speakers demanded coverage, perhaps they’d have to cut it down to a quarter-million-dollar party, which would be ok with me.
OK, a bit of a rambling rant, and now I’m bored. So that’s all you get. Bye.
You should come to a 360|Flex so you can see what it’s all about, as an attendee.
As for the survey being skewed… well that’s the issue. we can stop being “affordable” in order to pay your way and continue doing what we’ve been told repeatedly is a good thing, or we can stop doing one to do the other. Life is choices.
So, yeah, the math is a bit skewed. There are some things you’re not taking into consideration. All speakers were free. Sponsors also got tickets with different levels. We also offered a team rate where 4 people got in at $250 a piece instead of $360. We sold 120 of those. The team rate was probably good for the attendees, but something we’ll likely not be able to afford again. It was mainly me feeling bad that the price jumped from $100 to $360 between v1 and v2 of the conference.
The problem with Seattle is that we booked the place expecting 500, but got closer to 360. Therefore, everything was on a budget for 500 attendees. We only went that big because someone said we needed to go bigger. Unfortunately, that person didn’t hype the event much and so we didn’t hit 500. Another lesson learned. Don’t depend on anyone else. 360 attendees seems to be our level and so, we’ll plan accordingly moving forward.
Like we’ve stated on our blog. We’re developers, not professional conference organizers. It’s a learning experience for us, but one that we think we will get right overtime. If nothing else, we’re hoping to disrupt the conference space enough to shake out the shady, crappy ones and make others more honest. If the community deems we’re not worthy of survival, so be it. However, we’re hoping that speakers, sponsors and attendees are better off overall after we’re gone.
While the food question is well taken, I think there’s another aspect. Say you’re at a conference and spend some large percentage each day hunting around for a restaurant? Also consider this is time away from socializing. I just think the food question is more than just a dollar figure.
John, Tom. Again, didn’t mean to pick on you guys so much, but that’s what you get for transparency! 🙂 And again, I’ve only heard great things about the conference.
Phillip, on the other hand, some of my best times have been out hunting for restaurants in a new city, with new and old friends. At MAX, I barely stepped outside the conference center the entire time, which, while convenient, kind of sucked in the long run. I’d also gladly pay $5 or $10 for a sandwich at the conference if it brought the price of the conference down by a few hundred dollars. Flash Forward Boston for example. I bet they payed close to $500 a head for all the open bars and sandwiches and little cakes and free sodas that were always round. How many attendees would gladly give up those things for $500 off the price of their ticket?
Or, as a thought experiment, imagine two types of tickets. Full price includes food. Discount ticket is $500 less, but no “free” food. Which would sell more?
Philip nailed it on the head. The Flex community is still young. You and Tink have little clicks and so socializing is not a problem for you. You two could easily find 20 people to grab and wander the city with at any show. You’d all have great conversation and leave the conference happy. Some people, however, are just joining this scene and would like to make friends/connections. Not having everyone together makes it rough for them. The one comment we get a lot from our attendees is that we make them be social and they appreciate that help. Like I’ve said in other posts, conference learning is not just the speakers. It’s the networking and making connections in the community. This is the non-dollar value Philip is referring too. It is those connections that we feel are more than worth the price of food, since the food facilitates that.
Too quick on the submit. I do like the split ticket pricing. We’ll have to research the feasibility of that.
@kp
no worries, transparency has to bring thick skin with it, else Tom would cry a lot more than he does 😉 he’s like that.
360Flex Seattle was my first conference and it rocked my face off. MAX was my second and it kinda sorta rocked a little bit. I think.
360Flex Seattle I barely left the hotel (if you count the killer pub/restaurant on the bottom floor) and the convenience was great. Being able to run back to the room for a quick rest, good wifi or whatever was very nice. At MAX it took at least 45 minutes to get from the room to a session because you had to go down and get on the shuttle, wait for the shuttle to leave, drive there, unload, trek to the session. That pretty much sucked.
I think Tom makes a good point that for some people, you’ve been in the industry long enough and been to enough conferences that you’re guaranteed to know a gaggle of people to grab food and drinks with. For me, the parties and dinners were a great chance to meet other people that I wouldn’t have otherwise. Those social events have tremendous value. I made a few great friends, some of which directly led to the creation of earth shattering goodness like flexmdi :).
I also wanted to add that I don’t think the concert analogy completely holds up. Its more like putting on a Woodstock and asking the musicians to play for free. Sure, it might cost you (or your company) some money to get there, but you’re also hopefully getting something out of the other performances. After all, I would think if you don’t feel like you’ll benefit from/enjoy any of the other talks you wouldn’t attend even if your trip was 100% free.
I agree with keith, I love to have the food as an option. I usually don’t eat the food of the conference and I don’t want to pay for something that I don’t use.
I’m not saying don’t have food. I’m saying don’t give it away free when you are really charging attendees hundreds of dollars for it, meaning most of their registration money is buying food.
“360Flex Seattle I barely left the hotel”
You not interested in seeing new things, finding your way round new cities? I can’t think of anything worse than being locked down in a stuffy hotel for 3 days with nice carpets and all the stale air that comes with those hotels.
That was one of the negative comments I heard about Max Barcelona, that it was in a conference center out of town. Not many people really got to see the real Barcelona, which is an amazing place, unless they made a trek across town.
@ Tom
“You and Tink have little clicks and so socializing is not a problem for you.”
Where do you think we made those clicks? And yup we manage to do it without free food. We’ve experienced a whole lot more together than hanging around in hotels a couple of times a year.
I believe it’s “clique”
Anyway, I think regardless of whether food is included or not–it’s definitely nicest when the conference is both near the hotel(s) and in the center of town vs. out in the middle of nowhere.
Between the Red Lion’s rooftop terrace and the outdoor seating at the aforementioned pub, it didn’t feel locked up or stuffy in Seattle at all. We did go out and explore a bit, but sightseeing isn’t my main concern on conference trips and its certainly not the reason my employer sends me. I’d rather have easy access to the conference itself, but I suppose different people have different priorities. I also don’t understand the emphasis everyone is putting on the food costs considering the fact that 360Flex was still less than half the price of most other conferences. It was a third of the full price for MAX.
A little late to the conversation here, but wanted to add a point.
First, I fully believe that speakers should get paid for their time. Speakers are what make conferences great learning and networking opportunities.
That said, being a speaker at a conference brings benefits that are not immediately quantifiable. As an author of Flash-related books, you are speaking directly to your target market and are, therefore, likely to sell more books. As a Flash platform software engineer, you are speaking to hiring managers. When hiring, I have several times gone down the list of conference speakers and authors to find excellent candidates. (Notably, it is difficult to find one with any time on their hands.)
The point is that even if a speaker goes into their own pocket to go to a conference, while altruistic to an extent, it is also an investment in the advancement of his or her career. And while I would certainly spring for my own lunch to ensure that speakers are well taken care of (and therefore more likely to return), I hope great speakers like you will continue to look at the long-term benefits of being a speaker and an author. You probably do and will, which, unfortunately, is why you probably won’t get paid what you should for some time to come….
I know that in the beginning, honorariums were par for the course, but all you need is one of your conferences to go south (like when SARS hit Toronto and FiTC got hit hard by both attendees and speakers not wanting to show up) for you to lose serious money. But you can’t blame plague monkeys if you spend too much money in anticipation of good attendance numbers.
You’ll see time and again that speakers ARE generally thought of as the bread and butter of the conference. Without good speakers you really don’t have a conference, after all. It’s fairly easy to make a speaker happy. They don’t want to pay to speak at your conference. Most speakers have the experience that they know conferences cost a lot of money and can appreciate a couple of nice dinners supplied by the organizers. When you walk away from the conference so you can eat with your buddies, you know you’ll be shelling out to eat. What would you do if you were at home? You’d buy your own lunch/dinner/brunch. We all know that a festival or conference isn’t a vacation but if you’re organized, you get that chance to hang out with people you see once or twice a year. They’re your friends. If you want to socialize, go right ahead.
There are easier ways to deal with the costs involved with putting on a good festival;
1. Good PR company. I know FiTC has had a long-standing relationship with a good PR management company and their diligence has kept FiTC from tanking many times. One or two developers cannot match the foresight and clean-up of a good management company.
2. Sponsors. Sponsors will make or break your festival or conference. That extra $5,000 $10,000 $50,000 will make a big difference in the long run. Anything you think you need to pay money for, a sponsor can and will pay for it for the right to advertise at your event. (example? Shirts. A company already set up to make shirts would likely be willing to run out a batch with your logo if their logo is in your booklet and they have a sign up at the festival.)
3. Food. Make a sponsor out of a catering company. Do not charge your attendees up front, have the catering company set up in your conference somewhere. You dictate the menu and fix prices reasonably, but let them do the business side of it. If they do well, all well and good. If they don’t, you’re not out 9 grand.
4. Simplify. Don’t make a huge deal out of your event in decorations and such. Your speakers are what draws the crowds. Not the fact that you brought in lasers and dry ice to flood the stage every time someone walks on. Working internet connection (again, a service provider as a sponsor can save you tons), good projection system for each track (sponsor…av, cough) and tons of coffee and water (sponsor, starbucks, cough)
I know what this sounds like, “sell out, sell out, sell out”. But coming away from an experience like organizing a festival/conference should not be where you think “oh, eff that.” In the end. these things are a business, for the most part. Anyone taking a beating financially time and again is clearly not cut out for it.
I agree Hugh. I guess the key point for me is, what are people paying for? What is the value in going to a conference? I think generally it is:
1. the knowledge they will get from the sessions.
2. the networking opportunities with the other people there.
So those are the things that the budget should be spent on. If providing food generally enhances point number 2, well, then I guess that counts. I haven’t found it to be the case, but I have my clique to hang out with. 🙂
Additionally, I think for many it is a simple time off to go have fun with friends in another city / country. So a party or two is nice. But even these should keep #2 in mind. The parties with music so loud you have to shout directly into someone’s ear don’t go far in promoting good communication. But maybe I’m just getting old and boring. 😉